Archived talk:Usage (sandbox): Difference between revisions
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As it happens, Bob, the reference I had in mind when I used the spelling "Saint's days" was the multiple days upon which the Mother of God, (Our Lady of Loretto, Our Lady of the Snows, Our Lady of Good Counsel) and upon which St. Peter (St's Peter and Paul, St. Peter's Chains, St. Peter's Chair) are commemorated, so these were multiple days related to a single Saint. I only very briefly considered adding the "Saints' days" construct to which you edited, but did not, because at this point I was trying to show examples, not be exhaustive. | As it happens, Bob, the reference I had in mind when I used the spelling "Saint's days" was the multiple days upon which the Mother of God, (Our Lady of Loretto, Our Lady of the Snows, Our Lady of Good Counsel) and upon which St. Peter (St's Peter and Paul, St. Peter's Chains, St. Peter's Chair) are commemorated, so these were multiple days related to a single Saint. I only very briefly considered adding the "Saints' days" construct to which you edited, but did not, because at this point I was trying to show examples, not be exhaustive. | ||
[[User: | [[User:Mjolnir|Noel Stoutenburg]] 1849 19 July, 2006 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 19:36, 19 July 2006
Feedback on "Usage (Sandbox)"
Noel,
Yes, I like this! Perhaps my nose was a bit too close to the liturgical grindstone when I proposed the "Liturgical Calendar" layout; this is much more user-friendly.
I'm not sure about the Index by Scripture Reference - not something I feel would be relevant to finding music for a particular occasion (although nice to have at some stage - I bet there's nowhere else in the world where music is indexed like that).
I was dubious at first about the utility of categorising pieces by their Mass Proper function, given that Introits have nothing further in common than all being Introits. However, I know that choir directors are often on the lookout for Communion motets (which generally do share a common feature, i.e. devotion to the Blessed Sacrament), so, what the heck, let's do the job properly and categorise all the Mass Propers.
I thought your "Usage by Occasion" page very nicely sidestepped the potential problem of fixed and moveable feasts by putting them, albeit separately, on the same page. I think on this page I'll want to include a listing by date as well as by (fixed) feast - which will give the user the option of asking "What music is there for feasts falling within September?" as well as "When is SS. Peter & Paul?" This won't be a problem technically as we can use the same category for both listings - I was thinking of a date-type categorisation to cover both, so that pieces in the category "0629", for example, could be listed both under June 29th and under SS. Peter & Paul. (Although that will probably require a manual list rather than the automatic subcategory listing - perhaps not such a bad thing.) --DaveF 14:28, 16 July 2006 (PDT)
Re: Feedback on "Usage (Sandbox)"
Dave:
The proposed inclusion of a scriptural index was in response to several considerations: first to show the extensibility of the scheme--it would be simple (not to use simple to mean it wouldn't be a lot of work, or that it wouldn't take a lot of time, but rather that it would be easy to accomplish) to add an index of length of performance, or a subject index; second, where those of us who are in liturgical or quasi-liturgical situations, with the revisions of the lectionary that have been going on (and I which I assume will continue to go on), what was originally the set of lessons and propers for the fifteenth Sunday after Trinity, may be moved to a different day, and a scriptural index might be useful as a work-around until the links can be updated; third, I expect that there is a group of musicians who use the site who are in the situation of needing to find music to fit the circumstance when a Preacher announces that he is going to preach a series of sermons on the book of Hosea, and will find a scriptural refernce useful.
As to using a single categorisation to cover more than one classification, I'm not sure I favor that solution. It is so simple to add two single-use classifications to a single page, and thereby avoid the necessity of maintaining lists manually. Thus I would prefer as a general rule, separate categories for Lent, Lent IV, and Introit, to trying to make "Lent IV Introit" serve multiple useages.
Two other separate, but two similar problems are feasts having different dates, depending upon where one is. For example, when my copy of the Liber Usualis was printed (about 1963), in the U.S., the feast day of Our Lady of Guadalupe was specified for December 12, unless one was in the Province of New Orleans, in which case it was on November 16. Likewise, the Feast of St. Isaac Jogues and John de Brébeuf is September 26 in the U.S., but is on March 16 in Canada, and in Jesuit churches. So, does one use for Ss Isaac & John 0926, or 0316, and how does one communicate to those looking in the wrong place? And how about date type 0729, which depending upon where one is, would be either Feast of St. Martha the Virgin, or the Feast of St. Olaf, King of Norway?
I do think, though, in final implementation, that the word "usage" should be replaced by the word "Index"
--Noel Stoutenburg 0800 17 July, 2006 CDT
Different Liturgical Calendars for different denominations, too.
In addition to the continual revision of the propers for the church year in the Roman Catholic church (which now omits several early works), there are also the propers for the Anglican church, for the Orthodox churches, for the Eastern Rite Catholic churches ... what is to be done about them?? We already have a dichotomy between Anglican and Roman Rite assignations of the Magnificat and Nunc Dimittis.
ChuckGiffen 08:15, 17 July 2006 (PDT)
Re: Different Liturgical Calendars for different denominations, too.
Chuck
Seems to me that one of the advantages of using categories is that it may not be necessary to define one and only way to do things. For example, one way to deal with the the Magnficat and Nunc Dimittis in Anglican usage is to define the category "Evensong", while the Magnificat by itself can be categorized as "Vespers", and the Nunc dimittis individually can be categorized as "Compline". In other cases, an occasion which has one introit in one tradition and a different introit for the same occasion in a different tradition can be designated by defining subcategories. for example, "Breviary of Urban V", or "Lutheran" or "Vatican II". In still other cases (thought at the moment no specific example comes to mind) it might be deemed reasonable and proper to place a paragraph of explanatory material at the top of the list or category page.
Noel Stoutenburg 18:44 19 July, 2006 (UTC)
(Mis-)Spelling?
Bob Nottingham edited the page Usage by Season(sandbox)and in the comment of the edit, stated: "sorry but I am a stickler! saints' days requires an apostrophe after the 's' as it is a plural and the days belong to the saints".
Bob Nottingham 16:41, 17 July, 2006 (UTC)
Re: (Mis-) Spelling?
As it happens, Bob, the reference I had in mind when I used the spelling "Saint's days" was the multiple days upon which the Mother of God, (Our Lady of Loretto, Our Lady of the Snows, Our Lady of Good Counsel) and upon which St. Peter (St's Peter and Paul, St. Peter's Chains, St. Peter's Chair) are commemorated, so these were multiple days related to a single Saint. I only very briefly considered adding the "Saints' days" construct to which you edited, but did not, because at this point I was trying to show examples, not be exhaustive.
Noel Stoutenburg 1849 19 July, 2006 (UTC)